Episode 87: Why Teens Tune Out: Auditory Processing and the Hidden Disconnect – Jessyka Coulter

LD Expert Podcast with Jill Stowell
Why Teens Tune Out: Auditory Processing and the Hidden Disconnect
Jessyka Coulter

 

Jill Stowell: What if you lost track of what the teacher was saying every time you looked down to take notes? What if you were too wiggly and rambunctious to be allowed to go to Sunday School? Or too exhausted by social events to make friends? 

When listening is too hard, the brain tunes out. In the classroom, students struggling with auditory processing may start exhibiting distracting or challenging behaviors, which then, understandably, may get diagnosed as ADHD. If weak auditory processing is at the root of the attention loss, treating ADHD won't actually solve the problem. 

Welcome to the LD Expert Podcast, your place for answers and solutions for dyslexia, learning, and attention challenges. I'm your host, Jill Stowell, founder and executive director of Stowell Learning Centers and author of “Take the Stone Out of the Shoe: A Must-Have Guide to Understanding, Supporting, and Correcting Dyslexia, Learning, and Attention Challenges.” 

This summer, I joined study skills expert Jessyka Coulter for her “Learn It” virtual event to talk about auditory processing: what it is and what it's not, what it looks like in real life, why it matters so much more than most people realize, and what can be done to overcome those challenges. 

Because auditory processing challenges are so hard to see and understand, I'm going to play a short simulation during the episode, so that you can actually experience what it feels like to live with an auditory processing disorder. 

This is a topic that I'm deeply passionate about because for over 40 years I've seen how often children, teens, and even adults struggle with listening and friendships and attention. And it's not because they're not trying hard enough. It's because their brain is having to work overtime just to make sense of sound. 

When people hear the words auditory processing, they usually think it's about hearing, but it's not. So let's dive into my conversation with Jessyka Coulter from the “Learn It” virtual event because auditory processing is something that is so prevalent in learning challenges and yet so invisible that it's often overlooked. 

Jessyka Coulter: Well, hey, mamas welcome to our event, “Learn It.” I'm Jessyka Coulter, CEO and founder of Ace Cookie Tutoring and your seminar hostess. Our guest today is hopefully a familiar face. I've gotten to interview Jill just a couple times. She is the founder and executive director of the Stowell Learning Centers. So Jill, thank you for joining us again. 

Jill Stowell: Well, thank you for having me. I always enjoy our chats. 

Jessyka Coulter: Yes, I love it. And every time I feel like we've talked about something different and today is no exception. So I love how you have so many specialties when it comes to neurodiversity, when it comes to learning challenges. And today's topic, I feel like it's something I've heard about, but I didn't realize I didn't know it until you sent an email and I was like, oh, so. So tell us what we need to know about auditory processing disorder. Like what is it? And like, why does it happen? Like, I feel like we need to start at the very beginning. 

Jill Stowell: So the auditory processing system in the brain is not your hearing, but it's how the brain perceives information that comes in through the ears. And when someone has difficulty processing auditory information, you can look at them and have no idea that it's difficult. But they may look like they're kind of lazy or they don't care, or they're checked out or, you know, you said to take notes and they're being defiant and they're not doing it. Or they have an attention problem. 

Auditory processing issues get confused with attention deficit, often because it's really hard to pay attention when the information that you're getting is confusing and not clear. 

So one of the things I like to, I like to compare it to is a bad cell phone connection. Everybody's experienced that, right? Well, there's nothing wrong with your ears, but you're having trouble getting the message. It's cutting in and out or it's a little garbled and and so you're like, what? Wait. Say that again, and then you maybe say the wrong thing. You get irritable, you lose your attention. And with a cell phone, we can just say, I'm going to call you back. But when this is your life. It's exhausting and overwhelming and frustrating. 

And I thought it would be helpful. Because it is so hard to see. I thought it would be helpful for our, listeners to be able to experience what it might be like to have an auditory processing problem. 

So in just a second, I'm going to play something for you that is actually, it's it was written by Doctor Daniel Amen. He's an expert in ADHD and moods, and, and so it's really good information, especially, well for everybody, but especially for teenagers. And, so I want you to listen to it carefully because there's great information for you, and listen to it as though you were going to need to tell someone, explain it to someone after. Okay. 

[90-Second Auditory Processing Simulation] 

So how do you feel now. 

Jessyka Coulter: Oh I'm going okay. I'm glad I had the captions on.. Yes. 

Jill Stowell: That was 90 seconds. So then if you imagine what that would be like, if that was how you were processing language and sound all day long. How exhausting that would be. 

Jessyka Coulter: Wow. And so do people. Really? I mean, you talk about that bad cell phone reception, then we're talking the clip that we just listened to. I mean, it did sound really staticky. So, I mean, is that 100% how it works for, for people with APD? I mean, are they really hearing the kind of the crackling kind of the static? 

Jill Stowell: You know, I don't know about the s-- I think it is probably different for different people. 

But interestingly, I was we do auditory stimulation and training at our center, and I was doing a seminar, teaching a seminar on one of the sound therapy programs that we use. And and I was teaching to learning center owners. They were all very successful, smart people and, one of the women in the group, when I played that clip, she burst into tears. She said, that is my life. Yeah. 

So, we had a we had a student who we worked with when she was, a junior in high school, and this girl had a she knew that she had it from the time she was eight. So she and her mom had really investigated. They knew what she needed. They understood it. And she was really an advocate. 

She had a YouTube channel, no Instagram channel where she went live to talk to teens and parents and teachers and say, hey, here's what it's like to have an auditory processing disorder. 

And she said that, she knew that she had to sit in the front of the class because she had to be able to see the teacher. Otherwise she wasn't going to get it. She knew that she couldn't listen and take notes at the same time, which in high school, you're expected to do that. But she said, if I if I put my attention on taking notes, I'm going to miss so much information that the notes don't make any sense at all. And, so if she was going to have a hope of of getting it, she had to just listen. 

But she had to listen so hard that she would get home from school and she was just exhausted. Now, this was a girl who had goals. She wanted to go to college, and so she was motivated, but she'd get home from school and and it was like, I cannot sit down and do more work. I don't have anything left. 

And she even talked about socially, you know, social is so important. Friends are so important for our teens. And she said she just would have to psych herself up to go somewhere like a football game or a group outing with friends or a party. One on one was fine, but with a group, she said. It was just so overwhelming that she had to really get up for it and then couldn't really handle it for very long. 

So I thought that was really good insight into what it feels like, you know, from from a teen. 

Jessyka Coulter: Definitely. And I'm gonna sorry to hear about this girl. But at the same time, I'm happy in a sense, to know that there is a connection between this and the learning styles, because that was part of my question is, I work with some teens that are very, very visual like I am, and they would rather not have to listen to anything and just get to read the book, see what's on the board. And then I also work with teens like you just said that, listen to everything and they can't write. And we have to have the discussion of what do you remember hearing and is that enough? Or do we need to write something down that almost triggers what you heard? So that connection. 

Yeah, I was curious. Yeah. If there was any APD that was more likely to happen. You know, someone with super visual because, okay, maybe that didn't work. But now that we know, okay, that's what it sounds like. That's very different than I'm just not paying attention. 

Jill Stowell: Right. And I think that's a really important thing for parents and teachers to just know that that yeah, it can it looks like attitude. But there might be more to it. There usually is. 

You know, the auditory system is really important in ways that you wouldn't expect. 

Our brain can process this really wide range of sound frequencies and the low frequencies and sound. Those are kind of like, you know, the bass in dance music and rhythm. I mean, they get you, they kind of help ground you. They want to help you move, they help regulate you. And so if your brain is not really processing those lower frequencies, you may have difficulty with regulation. And and as soon as we start to get the brain to, to hear that and process it, the whole system settles down. 

And I remember a little boy, he wasn't a teen. He was like 5 or 6, but but he was just his body was just sort of out of control all the time. And we started working with sound therapy with him and focusing on those low frequencies and almost immediately it started to settle his system. Now it's a process. But that weekend for the first time, he was able to go to Sunday School and was even allowed to stay because he could settle. 

I mean, so and then the mid range frequencies are really where the speech sounds are. And so what you listen to on that simulation is kind of what it would be like if you're just not processing those frequencies. Well, you get part of it. I mean, I'm sure you got some of those words, but but then you're trying to connect the dots all the time. What what are they really saying? And then you miss, and, and we had a student say when I sit in class that it it's like the Charlie Brown teacher. Wah wah wah. And you think, of course, they're not paying attention. Of course they're agitated because they can't get good information. 

And then the high frequencies which we're not even really aware of, those are called overtones, but those are the frequencies that energize us. And and so if we're not processing that, we're going to be kind of down, you know, we're not going to be able to get going and have no energy in our voice. And, and, when you stimulate the brain and it can process those high frequencies, now you're seeing an increase in confidence and wanting to do things. 

And so it it's quite fascinating. 

At at one of my seminars, I had a parent say to me, she was a therapist, but she said, oh my gosh, this sounds like something my son needs. 

And it turned out that her son had just started college, and he had always been kind of depressed and down, and he didn't have friends. And he was he was smart, but he wasn't good at school. He was very talented musically and, in sports. But he would never he just would never follow through with anything. So he'd start and quit. 

And in fact, while mom was in the seminar, he quit college, you know, so we started doing sound therapy with him. And within the first week he said, wow, I feel I feel really good. He said, I always feel up and down, but usually mostly down. And now I feel mostly up. 

And then three weeks later, he said, some friends that I met at school called me to see if I wanted to go out with them, and I went and they they talked to me like they really liked me, like I was a leader. 

I ran into his mom at another seminar a couple of years later, and she said, he has said it made such a difference for him that he is a listener for life. So is so for him, it was those high frequencies that his brain just wasn't getting, and he needed that to be able to, to, feel motivated and do things. So it's an amazing system. 

Jessyka Coulter: Oh goodness. It makes me I want to ask so many questions, Jill. So I guess if I have to pick and choose immediately, I'm thinking we're talking sound therapy. So that sounds like that's the answer to APD. That's the kind of the strategy parents teens need to be aware of. 

Jill Stowell: If that's the diagnosis. I think the thing that I want parent people to really understand is that it really can change. And unfortunately, that's not the message you're going to hear from even many audiologists. There are some that really specialize in APD, and so that would be a different message. 

But from, you know, a lot of teachers and, and other educators, they just don't know. And so they think, okay, we know this is an issue. We're going to make accommodations great. But actually, it can be changed. 

And and what we do, we do sound therapy, which is music that has, classical music that has been specially recorded to highlight it in a sense, like, like highlight these different frequencies and sound so that the brain is kind of like, oh, I hear that. I recognize that that's there. Now, so train the brain to, to be able to process those frequencies. 

And then we also do an active auditory training so that now that the brain can process it, we want to get all those frequencies into the voice so that the voice becomes the ongoing stimulus. 

So in my voice right now, in your voice as we're talking, we're stimulating our own auditory system because we have a lot of, of high frequency and, and just, you know, a rich frequencies in our voice. But if we're talking like this and we're just very monotone and very down, that is not serving our system. And so now that the brain can hear or process those frequencies, we want to get it into the voice. 

So, you know, it's definitely not an overnight process, but I just want people to know it is possible. You do not have to go through life, you know, struggling like that. 

Jessyka Coulter: That's why I love talking to you. Because no matter what we're talking about, there's always a solution. Because that's how I feel about study skills is the fact of, okay, your teen is struggling. Well, that does not mean there's anything wrong with your teen. It means that there's something missing somewhere. 

Jill Stowell: Exactly. And we have to get to that root... 

Jessyka Coulter: Yes. 

Jill Stowell: ...piece. 

Jessyka Coulter: Yes. So we're, I'm glad that I asked because I was kind of curious. I was like what all does sound therapy include? So I'm glad to know. So I guess the last thing before we really talk about your freebie because I feel like, okay, we haven't talked about how we diagnose this, but I know that's part of your resource. So I think I'd rather ask you, you mentioned, Jill, these different frequencies. So, I mean, do people that that don't technically have this processing disorder, I mean, do they also struggle because, like I'm thinking you mentioned the college kiddo, so did he have auditory processing or was it just that one particular range? Is that part of the problem but not necessarily auditory processing. 

Jill Stowell: You know, auditory processing like visual processing or any of these other areas. There are many, many, many facets to it. So it can look different for different people. 

So definitely that was an auditory issue for him for some other people it might be different. It might be that they can't pay attention in noise. You know, or something like that. So it's going to vary. And you know, that's where you need to, to do some testing and do some exploration and see what's going on. 

Jessyka Coulter: Definitely. Yeah. I think that's kind of where I want to go next is yeah. How do we know that this is really what's going on. Like how do we help our mamas know? Okay. Yeah. This is something that you need to know about your teen or that your teen is really not making it up. He really is struggling. Yeah. At the same time, what's the difference between the real problem and your teen just doesn't like school because that's a whole different problem. 

Jill Stowell: Right, right. And and honestly, usually when your teen doesn't like school there's a reason for that. Yes. And and auditory issues could be the reason. It could be other reasons. But but so we have to explore and figure it out. 

Unfortunately there are not a lot of, there's not like really a lot of places to get auditory testing. The schools will, you know, if your child is in a special education or is being tested at school, they will generally test auditory processing. They just don't realize that there is something that can be done about it. 

But schools will psychologists sometimes. 

But really true auditory processing testing is more likely to come through, like someone like us, a learning center, a speech therapist or an audiologist who specializes in auditory processing because not all of those professions do so. So you have to look. 

Jessyka Coulter: Okay. Awesome. I know that your free resources, some kind of screener. So do you want to tell our mamas what that is and more about that? 

Jill Stowell: Right. I put together a quick screening tool for auditory processing just so that you can look at that. You know, if you've been thinking, wow, this has been going on for a long time, they're always just a little behind in conversation. They they start to listen and then they check out or they're always, Huh? What? I think moms often have a sense that there's more going on. And this screener is just a quick, you know, list of of things that are really common that you can look at and say, I do think there's some auditory issues going on. It's honestly very, common with learning challenges. 

Jessyka Coulter: Alright. Well thank you for that. I’lll make sure that link is down below because, yeah, I feel like that's something, that's going to open a lot of eyes that that might be very new information to a lot of our listeners. All right. Well, I know that this just one of many things that you can help our listeners with. So do you mind sharing your website, your socials, all those places our listeners can find you? 

Jill Stowell: We are StowellCenter.com like “stow” S-T-O-W-E-L-L StowellCenter.com is our website. And if you go to StowellCenter.com/Newsletter that is going to give you access to a lot of different free resources. But the one I want you to really pay attention to is that, auditory processing screener. 

You can also get a free copy of my book, At Wit's End, which has two chapters completely devoted to auditory processing. So that might be helpful. 

Jessyka Coulter: Well, I don't know if I knew that. 

Jill Stowell: And and then we're out there on all the platforms. StowellCenter.com. Or @StowellCenter. Awesome. 

Jessyka Coulter: I'm glad I asked because I thought I'd read your book, but I'm going. How did I miss that? So I need to go back and relook so thank you. All right. Well Jill, this has been another awesome conversation. Thank you for your time. 

Jill Stowell: I'm so grateful to be able to share this conversation with you today. I hope that you're walking away with a better understanding of auditory processing. 

If you want an even deeper dive, check out StowellCenter.com/APD. And remember, go to StowellCenter.com/Newsletter to find all kinds of free resources, including the quick Auditory Processing Screening Checklist that I mentioned in my conversation with Jessyka. 

I have been fortunate to be a part of several of Jessyka Coulter's virtual events. Jessyka is a study skills coach and the founder of Ace Cookie Tutoring. You can find her at AceCookieTutoring.com, and she is @AceCookieTutoring on social media. You're going to want to keep an eye out for her next virtual events. 

At Stowell Learning Centers, we help children and adults break free from the constant struggles associated with dyslexia and other learning challenges, including auditory processing. 

Despite what you may have been told, your child doesn't have to just live with it and every day doesn't have to feel like a battle for them or for you. 

If this episode gave you hope or insight, please like, subscribe or send it to another parent or educator who needs to know real change is possible.